Author Topic: making money out of WIN & PLACE  (Read 12437 times)

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making money out of WIN & PLACE
« on: 04 Jan 2012, 03:30 »
We all like making money!
 even more so if we can do it with triggers!

So I decided to have a look at the Win and Place markets the other day
 (Whilst I wait for OXA to fix Test Mode -4 months and counting)

First stop
             A little spying on the opposition!
              (When gambling know thy enemies strengths and weaknesses)

I goggled "calculate place odds from win odds"
     and the three most notable results were:
       calcodds.com
       www.betting-models.webs.com/freedownloads_places_discount_web.htm
       www.geekstoy.com

their most important features:

 one click betting
 multi market displays
instant calculation of "true" place odds
formulas -Harville,Stern,Henery.

So the competition is stiff.

For instance if I was going to 'one click' bet in the Win/Place market
    - then MFPro is perhaps no longer the best tool.
           (ThegeeksToy combined w/without calcodds may be better)

We on the other hand are going to utilize triggers?

OXA gave us the "winplace" parameter for tying the Win and Place markets
together, and this is what I tested.

"winplace" works great and is simple and easy.

Full marks that's an A+ for OXA.
That's half of the project complete.
   

Now for the second half!
The relationship between WIN and PLACE prices.

The relationship between Win/Place isn't simple.
You can't just say
      "True" Place odds = 1/4 Win odds
 (Don't try it, It doesn't work, You'll just lose money)

True place odds can't be calculated from Win odds!

What can be calculated are place "estimates" based
on various formulas (Harville,Stern,Henery).
Calcodds uses such a formula.

MFPro has no access "yet" to any such formula
 
        Place odds  = harville_winplace_lay_price
                           = stern_IF(lay_amount<50,lay_price2,lay_price)
                           = Henerey_last_traded
        The above lines simply don't exist yet in MFPro


Why MFPro has no access to the formulas is a mystery
(MFPro's competitors have access)

 Perhaps someone forgot to let OXA know(like I'm letting him know now)
   - tying multiple markets together is useless without access
       to a formula that details the relationship between them.


So where does that leave us ?

Well I for one don't intend on writing formulas with triggers.

So until OXA decides to give MFPro customers access to the betting formulas of Harville Stern and/or Henerey

  I'll leave the Win and Place betting to those that do have access.


Happy Punting

Apples999



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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #1 on: 04 Jan 2012, 06:29 »
hi Apples999
thanks for the info.
BUT oxa is a woman


mcbee
Please read the following  disclaimer with regards to the information you may request and obtain on our forum. This specifically concerns trigger files and various instructions as to how to implement a strategy.

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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #2 on: 04 Jan 2012, 08:08 »
Hello Apples999,

Could you please explain in English your problem and remind me and Oxa when and what exactly we promised to fix in test mode?

Or please stop referring to that.

Thank you.
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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #3 on: 06 Jan 2012, 08:02 »
My English is just fine, Thank-you.

As for my problem,
I don't have one.

MFPro has problems though.

If you want to resolve problems with Test Mode then
try the following topic:

"test mode- why are bets matched more slowly in test mode than in real mode"

If you want to resolve problems relating to "win and place betting"
add your contribution after this message.

As for being quiet ("..stop referring to that")

 I'll be quiet when the problems are fixed.

Happy Punting

Apples999

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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #4 on: 06 Jan 2012, 08:57 »
Quote
why are bets matched more slowly in test mode than in real mode
Because MF pro is not the exchange.
To match bets program has to get the last prices from BetFair.
And yes, we are going to make it faster in 7th version.
Anyway the test mode never can be as good as real, sorry.

I'm not sure that any software has such functions, and we don't see any substantial reason to add such specialized formulae, do you? What's the purpose of calculating win/place odds?

It's not a problem but feature request, am I right?
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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #5 on: 07 Jan 2012, 07:28 »
Read slower and try to stay rational!!

"test mode- why are bets matched more slowly in test mode than in real mode"
 -Is a topic on this bulletin board under the suggestions section
    (Not a question)

 -I've taken the liberty and pasted your comments there along with a reply.


As`for "I'm not sure that any software has such functions"

Look futher..
  I believe "Calcodds" uses the Harville formula (don't quote me)
  and www.betting-models.webs.com/freedownloads_places_discount_web.htm
      has all 3 formulas (Harville, Stern and Henery) on a single web page

With reference to
   ..we don't see any substantial reason to add such specialized formulae,do you? What's the purpose of calculating win/place odds?

Here's a quote from MFPro's help manual
         You can create a connection between an event's win and place markets. For example, you may condition a bet on the favourite in the win market if its price in place market is within some range.

Please explain how to calculate:
      "within some range"
without access to Harville, Stern or Henery?


It's not a problem but feature request, am I right?

Not having access to Harville Stern or Henery is problem.

The winplace function is near useless without Harville Stern and/or Henery.

However solving problem will involve adding new functions.
 (Or adding new features if you prefer)

Happy Punting

Apples999




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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #6 on: 17 Jan 2012, 02:55 »
I know I'm a pain

but who do we contact to get the ball rolling on this!
 ("this" = incorporating Harville, Stern and Henery into MFPro)

I (and presumably others) want  to trade in the PLACE market based on WIN odds.

At least 3 of MFPro's competitors already provide this service.
So it isn't a matter of IF, but rather of WHEN.

Hopefully this won't be the drawn out affair that "Test Mode" was.



Happy Punting

Apples999





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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #7 on: 17 Jan 2012, 13:42 »
Apples999,

As we've got the only one request (from you) for such functions we are not going to add them soon.
You can create a poll or rise a discussion if you wish to make it happen quickly. Sorry, hope you understand our point.
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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #8 on: 18 Jan 2012, 04:51 »
I understand completely,

Your being obstinate again!
 (stop looking the gift horse in the mouth)

As for a poll on this site..!!!
 thats mission impossible as there are so few here.
(mostly mcBee, me, you and a couple of newbees)

The projects worthwhile
 (doubles the number of horse racing markets alone)

Also destroys  the marketing advantage of at least 3 MFPros competitors.
(In fact will make obsolete their sole marketing and betting strategy)


Still if you can't see benefits,
 (when their staring you in the face)
 I'll have to try for the rise in discussion.


So if anyone else wants to make money
 by trading in the place market
 then
        LEAVE A MESSAGE


 Of course WellDoneSoft could always come to its senses



Happy Punting

Apples999


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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #9 on: 18 Jan 2012, 12:05 »
Apples,
How do you put up with these dickheads,

You do em a favour and they spit on you

Welldonesoft get off your arse Apples is right.

MarketFeederPro was designed for this.

Should be implemented ASAP.


Pjones

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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #10 on: 18 Jan 2012, 12:22 »
Apples,

This trick is not a good idea.
Your fake account is banned.
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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #11 on: 23 Jan 2012, 15:12 »
I understand that Apples have his unique way of telling his complaints but to ban his account or anyone else account that wants to express his disappointment is not solving anything. Also if he thought that MF PRO is a bad software he wouldnt waste his time with it but i believe he know that MF PRO is propably the best on the market and want to see it get better and better...

So now that this subject became a COMPAIN deposit box  i wonder when this 7th version is coming???

COME ON YOU GUYS!!!!(i am kitting)

keep up the good work

cheers

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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #12 on: 23 Jan 2012, 19:03 »
His account has not been banned yet.
I banned a fake account (pjones) he created to "support" the feature request.
Quote
i wonder when this 7th version is coming???
The 7th version is on beta testing already
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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #13 on: 31 Jan 2012, 18:11 »
sometimes I know exactly why people who run forums stay out of the way. Does apples have to be such a pillock? It is a resonable request to make to add these things but there are ways and means of asking.

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Re: making money out of WIN & PLACE
« Reply #14 on: 08 Feb 2012, 02:35 »
If anyone knows a better way to have MFPro faults rectified i'm all ears

until then I'll just embarrass welldonesoft into action.

C'mon welldonesoft there's support here for this project so how about starting it


happy punting

Apples999