Linking win and place - some questions [TCKT22052013WP]

Hi

I have been trying for some time to work out how the Place betting and Win betting links work, using the likes of winplace, sel_id and “remember”.   The attached triggers have been a bit of a trial for me in a few areas.  Can someone please answer my questions to try to help me with my understanding and progress ?:

FIRSTLY, PlaceMktsTest.mft
In the 1550 Southwell, the 7th fave (at least as I write) is Son Vida but the 7th fave in the place mkt is a different horse (SpiritofXaar), and Son Vida is 8th favorite in Place Mkt

(note: if you want to run it, you will probably have to tweak the parameters to find races and horses with different ranks in the 2 markets, as the odds for races are obviously changing rapidly at this time of day with low liquidity.  2030 Kempton is a good one to try)

1)   I first set some user variables to view them through the program and try to understand how they work.  

i)   Having read the manual I thought sel_order could be the rank of the horse in the relevant market (win or place) but both SelOrderWin and SelOrderPlace show the ChosenHorse figure (eg. 7) throughout the time the trigger block is running (I hoped for 7 and ?

ii)   Sometimes the SelNamewin shows Son Vida which is what I want as it is the ChosenHorse (7th win fave) and SelNamePlace shows Xaar (as I hoped).   However sometimes the two are switched around (sometimes just late in the program), ie. 7th fave win horse shows as SelNamePlace and 7th fave place horse is shown as SelNamewin.   I am getting very confused so please advise!

 
2)   In the final trigger, I wanted it to remember SelNameWin (the 7th win mkt favorite) and back that horse (name) in the Place Market.  No doubt ive got many of the settings, syntax or conditions wrong as at present it is backing everything on the place market, or sometimes nothing??

I did wonder if the “Selection’s sorting order is defined by back price” might help me somewhere so trialled putting that in one place too, but couldn’t notice any difference it made or if it was relevant.

SECONDLY, PlaceMktstest2.mft

3) There is a simple condition based on win and place ranks in the initial win market back.   Is it possible to improve my conditions (towards what id actually want) by writing code that represents similar things to:
- If place rank of a top 3 faves Win odds horse is outside the top 3 place rankings?
- if place rank of a horse is 2 or more greater than its win rank?  E.g. for 5th win fave would check to see if it was 7+ favourite in place market?  
I hoped sel_order would do this kind of thing but as i wrote in 1) then it doesnt seem to?

4) When i view sel_id and sel_name in the View User Variables box then they only seem to take on the value of the favourite?  Why is this, as i expected them to show the second favourite and other horses too?

The trigger block then goes on to try to "remember" the second favourite if there are any win bets placed on it , and then to place some place bets if so.  It largely seems to work

5) Is there a neater way to remember 4th and 5th favorites on win market's sel_ids, or do i need to have two remember statements as i currently have?

6) Is there a way of referring to / betting on the place market on 7th,8th favorite etc in a 12 runner race, as the way ive done it then can only name up to 5th fave or 3rd worst fave?



Many thanks
limrick

Hi,

You've asked quite a lot of questions in one post, can't address all of them in one go, so will try to take it step by step.

SECONDLY, PlaceMktstest2.mft

I would rather construct triggers for you from a scratch, so please describe in every detail what you are trying to achieve, and I'll do my best.

4) When i view sel_id and sel_name in the View User Variables box then they only seem to take on the value of the favourite?  Why is this, as i expected them to show the second favourite and other horses too?

That is because when you are viewing variables in that window, the program has no idea what selection you are referring to, so it takes the favourite by default. To view the values related to a certain selection, address that selection through corresponding indexes, e.g. s_2_sel_id for the ID of the #2 horse, or r_3_sel_name for the name of the third favourite.

5) Is there a neater way to remember 4th and 5th favorites on win market's sel_ids, or do i need to have two remember statements as i currently have?

Like I said above, I'm ready to make triggers for you, and I'm not sure the "remember" will even be needed - it is not always the best solution. If I do need to use it, you'll be able to see it in the trigger file and compare to your idea.

6) Is there a way of referring to / betting on the place market on 7th,8th favorite etc in a 12 runner race, as the way ive done it then can only name up to 5th fave or 3rd worst fave?

This condition will filter out the ranks you need:

Selection's Rank is between 7 and 12

All that will be left to do is to apply the trigger to "All Matching Selections"

OK thats fair enough and thanks very much for the offer of helping.  I have read various support documents and videos etc but it is hard to get everything working as I want!

I am working towards various things, which need me to gain confidence in how the win markets in certain sports can be connected up with related markets on MFP (horse racing  win and place being the classic example). 

If you could write a trigger block that does the following then hopefully I can understand/work out how it is functioning and play around with it etc to find out if it is successful whilst developing my own skills on the bot:

- If a horse in the win market (with odds less than 100) has a favorite ranking 2 or more higher in the place market than in the win market, then place a back bet on the horse to win at SP and a back bet to place at market price (eg. if 1st fave in win and 3rd fave in place mkt OR 5th fave in win and 7th in place mkt etc).  If their favorite ranking is 3+ higher in the place market than in the win market then double the stake (i.e. place another win back and place back, this time both at market price, not SP) (eg. if 4th fave in win mkt and 8th fave in place mkt, or 3rd fave in win mkt and 6th in place mkt etc)


- Also apply something close (but more straightforward) to the converse of the above....  If a horse in the win market (priced <100) has a favorite ranking 2 or more less than in the place market then lay the horse on the place market (but make no bet on the win market).  (eg. if ranked 4th on the win mkt but 2nd on the place market, or if 8th on the win market but 5th on the place market etc). 



- If I wanted to do the same thing in athletics or golf (which have Top 3 and Top 5 mkts etc) or football (eg. has winner and top 3 finish etc in many leagues) then how would you replicate something like the above horse aracing rules?  I ask because I think these sports arent set up in quite the same way for winplace variables etc as horse racing is, so might need a different connection to be made between two related markets with the same participants?

Many thanks
lim rick

hi
with  FIRSTLY, PlaceMktsTest.mft
all you need to do is add this condition to ALL the triggers
and selections trigger expression winplace_sel_order is equal to sel_order
what this does is checks that all the favourites are in the same rank order win markets equal place markets.
then add this condition to your betting trigger
and selections triggers expression sel_name is equal to SelNameWin
this tells the trigger that you want to bet on the selection in SelNameWin
please note that i have used trigger expression and sel_name, as these use the compressed name (no spaces), if you use the and selections name is equal to SelNameWin , it will not work because the trigger looks for the exact name with spaces
your other condition only checks to see if the variable has been set, it does not tell the trigger which selection to place the bet on.


mcbee

a quick note
when you are using variables, you MUST name them one for each variable/favourite.
4sel_id for the 4th favourite
5sel_id for the 5th favourite
just having sel_id for for 2 favourites will not work, it will only take the value/id of the last trigger that activates.

Hi mcbee.

Thanks for the tips – they help me to increase my understanding

On the naming of user variables, how come my second trigger block does place bets on the 4th and 5th favourites in the Place Market (ie. seemingly remembering them both) if you say that it will only retain the last value for sel_id?

On the first trigger block, I made your recommended changes.  Does the attached look like correct code now? My understanding is that it should place a place back on the Nth (as chosen) win favourite if it is also Nth place favourite. 



Hopefully Oxa will get back to me soon with the specific triggers that I requested so that I can work on understanding and developing them

Many thanks

hi
your altered triggers look ok,the only change would be to have the winplace_sel_order condition the first condition, in your betting trigger.

On the naming of user variables, how come my second trigger block does place bets on the 4th and 5th favourites in the Place Market (ie. seemingly remembering them both) if you say that it will only retain the last value for sel_id?

the reason why they placed the bets is because you used the remember and not the set user variable.
when using the remember you can have one trigger, with the condition.
and selections rank is between 4 and 5, this would remember both the favourite's.
the remember without conditions will remember all the favourite's, from 1 to the max runners.

mcbee

limerick, working on it...

Hi Oxa

Are you still working on this?

rick

Yep, sorry for this delay limerick, give me one more day.

limerick, so here is what you'll find in the trigger file attached:

- If a horse in the win market (with odds less than 100) has a favorite ranking 2 or more higher in the place market than in the win market, then place a back bet on the horse to win at SP and a back bet to place at market price (eg. if 1st fave in win and 3rd fave in place mkt OR 5th fave in win and 7th in place mkt etc).  If their favorite ranking is 3+ higher in the place market than in the win market then double the stake (i.e. place another win back and place back, this time both at market price, not SP) (eg. if 4th fave in win mkt and 8th fave in place mkt, or 3rd fave in win mkt and 6th in place mkt etc)

If you're happy with the triggers, they can be easily cloned to do the opposite thing.

As for your questions:

- If I wanted to do the same thing in athletics or golf (which have Top 3 and Top 5 mkts etc) or football (eg. has winner and top 3 finish etc in many leagues) then how would you replicate something like the above horse aracing rules?  I ask because I think these sports arent set up in quite the same way for winplace variables etc as horse racing is, so might need a different connection to be made between two related markets with the same participants?

You are right, the winplace_ prefix does not apply to non-races, but there is still a way to connect markets within the same event, be it a football game, a tennis match or any other kind of sports. You do it through a "remember" trigger action. You include the market_parent_id variable in the name of the remembered set, then address this set from the opposite market. As all markets belonging to the same event have identical market_parent_id, it becomes possible to refer to the same set of runners and their properties.

You can get the idea from this popular trigger example:

Football Cash Generator

OK many thanks, will have a play around for a while and let you know how I get on!