Author Topic: The Money Spinner Version 2  (Read 12368 times)

Tags:
  • All members
  • Posts: 44
The Money Spinner Version 2
« on: 07 Mar 2010, 03:52 »
*********Money Spinner V2*********

*********Now Released*********



The new Money Spinner V2 is still based on the original Money Spinner's adaptive loss recovery system, but now it doesn't risk large amounts in order to recover from losses.

Whilst the original Money Spinner agressively hunted and banged to make it's profits the Money Spinner V2 takes a calmer and less risk involved methodology to achieve the same end - profit at low risk.

Here are some of it's features:-

Like the original Money Spinner it won't stall your betting for hours if the following happens:-

*   Race meeting delayed
*   Your selection is scratched at the gate
*   Race meeting cancelled



It operates on:-

*   AUS Gallops
*   AUS Jumps
*   AUS Harness
*   AUS Greyhounds
*   NZ Gallops
*   UK Gallops
*   UK Gallops
*   UK Greyhounds - including jumps


It selects:-

*   Favourites just prior to jump
*   No Odds on favs only those better than $2.15

It targets to win 0.5% of your starting balance with each bet.


Recovery:-

This is the heart of The Money Spinner V2, the Money Spinner V2 will now recover your losses but with caution. It does this by only trying to recover your previous loss plus 0.5% of the start balance on any one race. This keeps your wagers down to a manageable level.

Having said that, we all know that sometimes those long string of losses happen and with any system that recovers losses it will snowball very quickly.

This is where the Money Spinner V2 comes into it's own. After you have had a short run of losses it adapts and changes it's tactics. Instead of continuing to throw every increasing sized bets into the money pit it stops chasing the loss, that's right it stops.

OK, so how does it recover then I hear you ask, It changes the target instead. So instead of trying to win 0.5% of your balance on the race it increases that target and stops trying to chase the loss.

The results are that it almost always recovers your losses within 3 to 4 winning bets.

The Money Spinner V2 keeps adapting and changing as it goes along to keep pulling back the loss and aiming for profits. There is a point that we all know well, and that point is when enough is enough. Most of us have trouble realising the point at which it just isn't our day until it's too late. The Money Spinner V2 will realise this point and will realise it in enough time so as it doesn't absolutely decimate your balance.

The Money Spinner V2 will become your conscience when you need it most, it will STOP betting for the day when it's all going pear shaped.

Winning:-

The Money Spinner V2 will aim to achieve a 7.5% profit on your starting balance in each session, and it achieves that quite regularly. Again though not always, and there is a good reason it doesn't.

As part of the continuing adaptation and strategic decision making the Money Spinner V2 employs, it will lower the profit target progressively as the day goes. So if you are having an ordinary day it will lower the target to get you out quicker with a modest profit.

Price:-

The price of The Money Spinner V2 is the same as ever.

Pricing - FREE for a 14 day trial.

1 Month License - AUD $70
3 Month License - AUD $185
6 Month License - AUD $275
12 Month License - AUD $500
Lifetime License - AUD $1500 (Previous subs will be counted towards a discount of 5% per monthly sub to a maximum of 50% off the regular price)


In fact I will give you a 17 day trial for free with no obligation, 3 days to run in test mode and then 14 days to run in real mode.

This will give you ample oppurtunity to make more than enough cash to pay for your first month's subscription.

For those of you that have already trialled the original Money Spinner I will offer you a further 7 day trial of Version 2 for free.


Results:-

As I have done with the original Money Spinner, I will continue to post the weekly results summary in this thread. I never hide any of my results nor do I doctor them in any way. So if it has a bad day and looses money you will see it. These results are actual statements from my own BetFair account.

I am a strong believer in being open and honest about all results as those of you who already subscribe will attest.

I look forward to hearing from you all requesting your trials.

Many Regards
Brett

http://money-spinner.tripod.com

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #1 on: 07 Mar 2010, 07:49 »
Well I know it isn't time for my weekly results update, but I thought I should share today's AUS market results with you all.

Not a very auspicious way to launch the Money Spinner V2, however, I guess it is in some ways.

Today's AUS markets had it all, meetings delayed horribly, meetings cancelled. It had everything apart from Favourites winning, but the Money Spinner 2 did it's job without emotion or fuss.

Here is the rundown and stats on today's AUS markets:-

The day was just awfull with only 4 winners from 35 races giving a pitiful strike rate of 11.5%.

The sequence went like this :-

5 losses
2 wins
2 losses
1 win
10 losses
1 win
14 losses

Again though Money Spinner V2 pulled the plug on the day with a loss of $88.66 from a starting balance of $475.24 giving a loss of 18.66% on start balance.

Considering that it usually makes the 7.5% in each session I am really happy with the result.

If things improve – I am sure they will the law of averages dictates they will – we all know that statistically that Favourites win roughly 33% of the time. Then things can only get better, this means that I should make back this deficit as follows:-

7th March UK – 7.5% profit = $415.57
8th March AUS – 7.5% profit = $446.74
8th March UK – 7.5% profit = $480.24

So completely recovered in a day and a night.

Now provided that it does hit its targets for the next 3 sessions then I haven’t seen a system that can recover like that and still not loose bulk funds on a bad day.

I am quite happy even after such a bad day, in fact, the worst single day I have seen in the last 15 years. It seems odd to be smiling even thought the day was rubbish, but i know how some other systems and triggers would have coped, a lot worse.

Anyway, I just thought I would share that with you all.

  • All members
  • Posts: 8
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #2 on: 12 Mar 2010, 00:05 »
can the http://www.profit-maker.co.uk system be adapted to work with your triggers?

It works amazingly well with the Auto-BF software (am making profit every week!), but if it works equally well with your triggers I might be interested in trying it out.

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #3 on: 12 Mar 2010, 02:09 »
Born2Bet

I had a look at that software as I too had Auto-bf.

In fact it was the poor service from Auto_BF that inspired me to find my own.

There are elements of lots of things in Money Spinner. But as for re-creating someone elses system and then marketing?  it may not be considered a nice thing to do.

As for profit-maker. Well there would be nothing stopping you from doing this yourself with your own triggers. Auto-bf uses an incredibly old version of Market Feeder Pro with hardly any of the functionality we have now. Plus you have to pay 99 pounds per month.

My goal was to make a reliable system that would allow you to not only grow from a very small balance but also allow you to pay for the system as you go along until you own it.

As for Auto-BF. I too have it and yes it works, when the guy can be bothered to put his special zip file up for download - mind you he wont tell what time it will be available, and on some days it seems he just couldnt be bothered.

With out it poof there goes a day out of your monthly subscription.

Also try and contact him? Before you pay him he will answer you every time. Afterwards never hear from him again.

Those of you that have already dealt with me will know that I try and answer every email in a timely fashion whether you are a subscriber or not.

I hope that answers your questions in a round-a-bout fashion.

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #4 on: 14 Mar 2010, 02:37 »
Hey Everyone,

   Here are the results for the end of Week 10 2010.

I spent this week trying to combine the best aspects of the Money Spinner – Aggressive version with some of the safer aspects of Version 2 – I have dubbed this new incarnation of the Money Spinner the IDoLL version (I Don’t Like Losing).

Things were going well towards the end of the week with some nice profits being made, there were a few tweaks to be made but it seemed I was on the right track. Until Saturday’s UK markets when BetFair’s API crashed, it wasn’t showing any matched bets, this meant that the trigger was not seeing the bets it had placed and therefore was trying to recover the same amount all the time, leading to some out of control bets and a huge loss.

Of course all of this was happening whilst I was happily asleep over here in AUS.

I want to continue testing and if after the end of this week can show a nice profit with no huge risks I will release it.

For those of you currently trialling V2 I will extend your trial to the IDoLL version if it goes well. For those that have already trialled I will also offer a further 7 days trial. But all of this depends on the IDoLL version going well this week.

Happy Punting.

Brett
http://money-spinner.tripod.com

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #5 on: 21 Mar 2010, 03:21 »
Hey Everyone,

   Before I get into Week 11 results, I want to address some questions that have been raised over the last few weeks, I would like to firstly let you all know a little about me.

I am 44 this year married with teenage children one of whom is engaged. I live on a rural property on the outskirts of Sydney and I work for arguably the biggest global manufacturer of retail electronic devices as the Australian Technical Support engineer covering their print/copy products.

Educationally, left school in year 10 (the fourth form). Went to technical college and gained an electronics engineering certificate. I have taught myself to write various coding languages over the years starting as far back as using BASIC on a Commodore PET during my school days.

Punting, hmm I guess I was first exposed to punting via my grandparents who emigrated from the north of England when my father was only 2. They would always take me up to the TAB (OTB) to put the bets on. And on occasion my Grandmother would have me pick the daily double from the paper.

My Grandmother’s system was simply to back any horse that had one of the 14 grandchildren’s name in it. Surprisingly she did quite well, they were never rich but it made a few pennies here and there for them.

As I got older and got more involved in the world of computers and discovered the world of racing statistics, I started using computers to crunch the data and come up with selections. This was at times profitable but never for a very long time.

The things I learned along the way are thus:-

•   I could stare at a horse all day and still not know if it was a good horse or not
•   I could pour over form guides for hours and still not be able to narrow any race down to one single selection
•   I am easily swayed by emotion when punting (too easy to break the rules)
•   I am easily swayed by the ‘experts’. I let them steer me off my picks.

It’s those four things that really started me investing my time in automating my punting. I learned a long time ago that using any system to try and pick the winner is only as good as it’s last win. I mean they all work to a degree but all eventually fail in the long run.

This is why the Money Spinner simply picks Favourites and uses a complex staking and recovery plan to make money. Statistically in both AUS and UK horse racing the favourite will come in  roughly 30% of the time. The downside is the prices are short.

OK I hope that addresses some of the questions that some have had about who I am and what the Money Spinner is. It doesn’t aim to make you a fortune every day, it’s goals are simple, aim for 7.5% and then accept lower if it’s all not going so well.
The idea is to try and take the emotional aspect out of punting, but still leave you feeling as though you can trust it.

I think It is inching ever closer to that target with the current IDoLL release. (Hmm Yes I spent some time in Marketing – my apologies).


Ok the final question and it’s the big one everyone always asks, as I used to as well. If the system works why sell it,  why not keep it and make all the money from it yourself. There’s a simple answer to that, I don’t believe there is a system out there that will earn you enough income on a regular basis to pay off the mortgage and quit your job. Let’s look at the maths involved and maybe you will see why I say that.

Firstly, most systems that promise the world and untold riches seem to publish their results files only for a select period of time and never seem to be updated. Also strangely they have huge starting balances, in the order of $10,000 plus minimum.

Now as I stated earlier The Money Spinner aims to make 7.5% every session so if I published select results using a start balance of $10,000, well that would equate to $750 profit everyday WOW!!!.

You starting to get the picture here.

Let’s look at the amount of cash you need to have to be able to have in order to give up work and make a living from the punt. Most professional punters I have spoken to here in AUS say that they have a working balance plus at least 2 years wages in  reserve balances, for those rainy days.

Now they target to win twice what they need to survive, half goes in their wages and the other half goes to building up more reserves. So let’s say your yearly wage is $50,000 keeping it simple lets also say that equals $1000 a week.

So remembering that we need 2 years reserve tucked away for a rainy day that’s $100,000 to start with. Now obviously we want to take home every day what we take home now. So working on a five day week, $200 per day. Remember though we want twice that to keep building reserves so $400 per day.

If our system nets us 5% per day that means we need a starting balance of $8,000.

So all up we need a total of $108,000 comprising of two years wages plus a working balance of $8,000.

I am happy to listen to anyone else’s views on these numbers but for me those numbers would mean financial security.

So, consequently as I don’t have that amount of cash laying around, why not sell my ideas? Would any of you do any less?

Ok the asking price, it was set originally in order that you could start with a very, very modest balance and eek out a little bit of profit enabling you to buy your next instalment as well as put some in your pocket.

Having said all of that I still think it is pretty good value, the Money Spinner consists of 57 individual triggers, plus 52 conditions scattered amongst those triggers. So it’s quite a complex thing, along with that there was over 1,057 hours of development involved to get it where it is today (yes I did keep a record) according to my current pay rate that’s over $40,000 in man hours, and I have invested over $2,000 in testing – I only test in real mode in order to make sure it’s right.

So you can see what I have spent and where I want to be, so therefore – the reason for offering the trigger for sale.

But and this is the big BUT, I don’t care if I don’t sell it – you see I like it, I get enjoyment from watching it work and improving on it. No that doesn’t mean I am going to give it away lol.

Ok enough of all of that.

WEEK 11 RESULTS

Week 11 was more testing in the beginning of the week you will notice the big loss early on – all part of live testing. Towards the end of the week you can see that the Money Spinner can recover nicely and not risk large amounts of capital on any one bet. Even on the loss days the losses were not substantial.

I think the Cheltenham carnival in the UK is much like carnival time here in AUS, there seems to be a lot of silly money in the markets. A lot of short favourites that shouldn’t have been, a lot of markets with multiple favourites. The strike rates and long runs of outs should show that. Including a run of 20 outs. A point of interest is that it didn’t wipe out the balance the loss was only 0.3% of the balance.

So I think the Money Spinner is in good shape but I will continue to try and improve it.

Regards
Brett



Happy Punting.

Brett
http://money-spinner.tripod.com

  • All members
  • Posts: 20
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #6 on: 27 Mar 2010, 16:42 »
Hi Brett,

I got your files for the trials but due to various personal circumstances I have never used them. However, I love following your threads and seeing the results. I would like to take out a subscription but I am not sure what you are doing in terms of the triggers as they seem to change very regularly. Do you think you will settle into one set of triggers and keep them or will you keep altering them? Is altering them making them significantly better?

  • Élite
  • Posts: 363
  • Gender: Male
  • head always buried in stats
*
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #7 on: 27 Mar 2010, 23:05 »
I am sure Bret will respond personally, but from the various postings since the launch of the triggers, I know Brett has had some bad luck with a variety of different issues.
He found the Aussie markets not as liquid as the UK and took a hefty loss early on.
He then re worked the trigger to be less dependant and more defensive of the Aussie markets, however the newer version is still work in progress as this too ran into some difficulty with Betfair going down at the wrong moment.
I understand that Brett uses a loss recoupment plan which has some very clever conditions to protect the user from serious damage, although inevitably this may have the effect of limiting the potential wins as well. I think that Brett is trying to find the right balance of profit V risk in the trigger. I shall be looking forward to the results from this week as i know the favourites have done well in the UK for most of the week.  ;D
This time next year, we will all be paying Betfair premium charge commission rates!

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #8 on: 28 Mar 2010, 01:10 »
Hi Nicholas

Sorry to here you didnt have a chance to use your trial.
To answer your question, well Betfair Winner hit the nail on the head. I have been trying to find the right balance between risk and reward.

I think it is very very close now and I dont think I will be making many more, if any adjustments to it's current form.

I also respond to the changes that my subscribers want to see as well, so sometimes small changes are made to reflect what people want.

Cheers
Brett

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #9 on: 28 Mar 2010, 01:15 »

Hey Everyone,

   Here are Week 12 results as well as the overall 1st Quarter results summary.

The IDoLL version of The Money Spinner is working well, recovering nicely now and making nice modest profits. I think I have found the right balance of risk versus reward. I don’t think I will making many more adjustments now.

Hope you all had a good week.   

Happy Punting.

Brett
http://money-spinner.tripod.com

  • Élite
  • Posts: 363
  • Gender: Male
  • head always buried in stats
*
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #10 on: 28 Mar 2010, 08:06 »
Hi Brett
Many thanks with keeping us informed of your progress of the "the money spinner" and well done to you for all your efforts and perseverance through the last 3 months when you did not have go all your own way.

Perhaps you would find time to comment on the points below?

I notice that you made an adjustment to assist recovery on Saturday 27th presumably this was a discretionary adjustment for that day done by yourself manually, and if an individual wanted to mirror that change it would be possible? Could it be argued that the adjustment could compromise the automatic "set it and forget it" feature a little?

I also notice that you once again made a profit from the week, very well done on your continued success with this. However as highlighted above your latest version has far more protection built in against losses than the original version, which could have limited your profit potential a little.

I also noticed that your commission rate is discounted by 20% to just 4%, not the 5% that most occasional punters get. So what effect would a 5% commission level have on current projected profit margins if applied for last week and for previous weeks?
 
I am trying to do the maths on this, because if someone were to subscribe monthly to you, and also to MF PRO for the platform, and assumed a 5% commission level. Also they did “set it and forget it” without making any adjustments manually assuming that most subscribers would not have the confidence to make changes on their own. What would have been the net return for last month and overall based on the new features of the program?

Sorry to ask all these questions Brett but I am sure you will understand that before going into such a program (as you have highlighted all along) you have to be totally aware of all the good features as well as perhaps the not so good features.

Very well done on your continued success Brett and especially for all the hard work and effort you have contributed to making the package work for those wanting to take advantage of it. I know from my own experience how many hours go into trying to find an angle with all of the numerous possibilities there are out there!  ;D
This time next year, we will all be paying Betfair premium charge commission rates!

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #11 on: 28 Mar 2010, 08:28 »
Hi BF Winner

Firstly, Thanks for your continued support in following the Money Spinner's progress.

To try and answer your points.

Your first question, the adjustment made was to let it go beyond the hard coded stop loss - I had originally set a stop loss of 50% of the start balance. As this was the first day with a long losing streak it was the first oppurtunity to see what would happen if I let it go further so I set the stop loss to go down to 30% of start balance, and it recovered nicely.

This change is hard coded in the trigger (well it is now). As you are aware I only test in real mode (if that makes sense) so occasionally there may be little tweaks like that to make it perform better. You are right though, it would have stopped and finished with a loss for the day if I hadn't changed it.

I don't think the potential for winning is limited greatly with the current version, I had always aimed for 7.5% profit on each outing, it now scales that back if it is having an ordinary time, the idea is to get in and out as quick as possible, this limits the prospect of running out of races in any one session.

So to recap - if there are over 150 races in the list at the beginning it will look for 7.5%, if there are 100 to 150 races it looks for 5% and if less than 100 races it looks only for 2% profit. It will scale those targets down dynamically if it is really struggling throughout the session as well.

Commission rates are out of our control, as you know betfair decides them based on your betting activity. The commission rate dropped recently because my balance is very small - so small bets. Having said that, the Money Spinner aims for its profits taking into account commission. So when it looks for 7.5% profit it adds the default 5% comm onto it so you will always at a minimum make the 7.5%. If you have a good discount rate it simply means you will hit the target quicker than someone with a lesser discount.


Its easiest to talk in percentages when trying to do the maths as you say. It's also a bit early to take a whole month into account as there was a big loss during the development of the latest version. So if it's OK i will take just the last week as it reflects a full week of the latest version only - with only one adjustment.

The opening balance for the week was $63.57, and the closing balance after commissions was $108.83 a profit of $45.26 this equates to a 71.2% profit on your starting balance over the week. A little better than bank interest you may agree. But this is only one week, let's see how it goes over this coming week - it already hit its target for todays AUS session so off to a good start.

And never apologise for asking questions, I am more than happy to try and answer any questions within reason as best as I can.

Cheers
Brett

  • Élite
  • Posts: 363
  • Gender: Male
  • head always buried in stats
*
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #12 on: 28 Mar 2010, 12:48 »
HI Brett
Many thanks for your very speedy and detailed reply; it is good to know that you have your finger firmly on the tiller and that you are continually updating the methodology in the face of different sets of problems that may present themselves.

I guess sooner or later you will have to make the decision as to where to set the stop loss feature since as you have said it is hard coded in the program and your average Joe probably will not want to tinker with it anyhow.  :o

I think in view of the recent changes and the fact that had the parameters not been changed by you on the 27th (to turn a losing day into a winning one), you may need to review the results you have returned so far to better reflect those subscribers who are currently trailing the trigger in order to give the results that a third part would have had, not one achieved by you after the change to the stop loss.  ::)

Alternatively would it be appropriate to wipe the slate clean, and as from today start the idltlm trigger from day one, as you have now decided that the current setting offers the right balance between safety and profitability based on likely probability given your strike rate at around 30%, with perhaps the commsion rate adjusted to 5%?

I entirely understand that commission rates are out of control and 1% difference between your results and the 95% of 5% punters does not sound like a lot however in order to show the likely staking V returns I think it would be prudent to show the results with a 5% commission since the difference can be significant after 100 or so bets....let alone the 1000's that you have made since you commenced.

The 71.2% profit on the staring balance of 63.57 is nevertheless phenomenal and presumably if that were duplicated with a 500 start balance the results would be even better (although the staking would be significantly higher also)

Anyhow your thoughts regarding the declared results  v changes etc would be welcome  :)

Great news also about yet another profit making day in AUS
have a good day  ;D


This time next year, we will all be paying Betfair premium charge commission rates!

  • All members
  • Posts: 44
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #13 on: 28 Mar 2010, 13:44 »
Hi Again BF Winner

Thanks again for your comments - I do take on board what you are saying.

The only strong argument I have against your points - and it isn't really against them at all I guess. Is that right from the beginning I vowed to show my actual account statements in a sign of good faith and in order to try and be as transparent as possible. There aren't many systems out there that will show as you say thousands of bets from their own accounts, they are usually based on passed results.

The wish to be transparent is why whenever I do make a change I note it on the results sheets.

Having said that, it would be dishonest of me to not state my current discount rate, or fudge the results to reflect a 5% only commission.

I guess again I must say that the Money Spinner does take into account the commission when it runs, but I can only honestly show what is happening in my own account. I do have another account I could use or perhaps I could open a third, the problem is that due to the restrictive licensing laws in Australia I may only use one single account to bet on AUS events as an AUS resident. (trust me I have tried - and had an account temporarily suspended by BetFair).


Hopefully there wont be anymore changes from now on - I am quite confident of that (at least for a couple of weeks), I need to spend some time with family for a while now anyway and won't be available to make wholesale changes. So effectively it is kind of like wiping the slate clean and everyone following along at home can make their own judgements from there. Again it's the reason I haven't topped up that particular account. I think starting this week with a low balance of $108.83 will give a good barometer for people to see what they can do with a small balance in terms of making enough to pay for the system as well as MFPro.

It's already been in and out of the UK markets today with a modest 3% or so profit. (not many races so it aimed low). So after day 1 this week the balance is now $120.08 so that's an overall profit for today of $11.25 or 10.34%. So you can see that because the profit compounds each session it should be very easy to make a profit of close to 100% or in other words double your money.

So if it continues in that fashion, and lets say you start with a $50 balance, week 1 would see you with $100, week 2 $200, week 3 $300, week 4 $600. I am pretty sure thats enough to pay a montly sub to both Money Spinner and MFPro regardless of the discount rate of comm.

But putting chickens before eggs there, lets see how the week goes.


Cheers
Brett

  • Élite
  • Posts: 363
  • Gender: Male
  • head always buried in stats
*
Re: The Money Spinner Version 2
« Reply #14 on: 28 Mar 2010, 15:53 »
OK Brett
All the very best of luck to you now that the format is pretty much set.
I will look forward to trying the trigger out for myself in the near future.
Many thanks
Andy
This time next year, we will all be paying Betfair premium charge commission rates!

 

Please note, BetFair is seems to be currently OFFLINE