Where are my bets going?

Hi
If the action you are using is "Lay at SP" or "Back at SP"
the bet needs to be placed before the off
the market needs to support SP
any parameters that have been set need to be met (Price Limit), (Liability)

If the action you are using is "Lay" or "Back"
the option "Take SP" needs to be set
the market must support SP
and the bet needs to be placed before the off.

So I can use "Lay at SP"

and  a condition say:
actual SP is between 5.0 and 5.5  ?

Hi
I can't give a definite answer on that, but I don't think that will work because the condition has to wait for the SP reconciliation at BetFair to be completed. Your bet at SP is incorporated in the reconciliation so you can't define SP after it has been defined by BetFair.

You can set a condition using near or far SP:
Lay at SP
near SP is between 5.0 and 5.5

or you can use price limit option in the action:
Lay at SP
price limit option 5.5
which means the maximum SP price you are willing to accept is 5.5

edit:
actual_sp is available after the off
lay at sp has to be placed before the off
the condition you suggest will not work
 

When laying at SP you need to be aware of a few things:

As Mark said, that you cannot use actual_sp in the condition as it is zero until the BSP is resolved momentarily after the off. So if you said actual_sp < 5 it would fire (as the actual_sp is always zero until the start) but be meaningless.

You can make an estimate of final SP by using near of far SP, as Mark suggested, or guess at the eventual SP from the current back or lay price but there are no guarantees!  I use lay at SP to green up backs placed earlier,  and have tried using back price, or an average of current back and lay prices at a few seconds to go.

The other thing to note is that the stake when laying at SP will not be the value in the "Amount" box in the trigger! Confusing.  When laying at SP you define the amount you are putting at risk (the liability). So if you put £10 in the amount box and the final SP is 6 then the stake will be £2  (ie =  10 / (6-1) ). 

THE AMOUNT HAS TO BE OVER £10 to meet BetFair SP rules - anytthing lower will be ignored.

The price box in the lay at SP trigger defines the maximum price you will allow.  I leave this blank as I have already stated what I willl be liable for in the Amount box.

The trouble is that races can be late starting, a few minutes is often seen but this can be up to 30 mins or more if there is a big fall in a previous race.  Your SP bet waits for the eventual start and cannot be cancelled.

Prices can vary a lot in that time.  For this instance I have a trigger that checks every 30 seconds after the intended start and trims the lay at SP amount accordingly based on how the back price is moving .  To avoid the mininimum £10 mentioned above for these bets I use "Take SP" not 'lay at SP' for these trim bets (with a price of 1.01 so they are deliberately not matched before the off) but if there is a market suspension before the start these are cancelled anyway - so there is no totally infallable way of doing it.

Sorry for the long post - I hope this helps.

Thanks Alphaman and Mark IV this is a journey but I am getting there.
Can you please comment on my pdf attached

Hi Londolozi,

Yes these things sometoimes take some patience.  I am afraid you still have actual_sp used in the formula in the amount box.

You cannot do that for a "lay at SP" trigger as it thinks this value is zero.  You have to make an estimate of the final SP.  This could be any one of:

near_sp
far_sp
back_price
lay_price
(back_price+lay_price)/2

Just reading some more about Liability

If I just enter total_funds*.00125

Does BetFair do the rest if
1. My price limit is met
2. Conditions are met (lower limit and rank test etc)

The trouble is that races can be late starting, a few minutes is often seen but this can be up to 30 mins or more if there is a big fall in a previous race.  Your SP bet waits for the eventual start and cannot be cancelled.

Prices can vary a lot in that time.  For this instance I have a trigger that checks every 30 seconds after the intended start and trims the lay at SP amount accordingly based on how the back price is moving .  To avoid the mininimum £10 mentioned above for these bets I use "Take SP" not 'lay at SP' for these trim bets (with a price of 1.01 so they are deliberately not matched before the off) but if there is a market suspension before the start these are cancelled anyway - so there is no totally infallable way of doing it.

Sorry for the long post - I hope this helps.

I use a filter condition that tests event_start
eg: Minutes since event start is < 5

Yes but that checks the "scheduled Start time".

So for a race at 15:30 that trigger will act from would be form 15:25.

If there is a delay in a previous race, your race might not start until 15:55 ?

Your Amount formula look ok if you just want to lay to a liability of 1.25% of your funds.

Hi londolozi
Just to add:
"Lay at SP" should be triggered before the off - your screenshots are showing In-Play
and the minimum liability for "Lay at SP" is AUD30.00

for reference in case you have not seen it:
http://sp.betfair.com.au/index.php

Hopefully this will work.
I will run a test on the UK tonight.

Thanks for your help guys

Hi Londolozi,

You still appear to be trying to place a "lay at SP" bet after the market has started which cannot be done. 

Lay at SP is for before the market starts.

If you want to place a bet after the market starts just use the "Lay" trigger action.  You can try then to get SP but it is not guaranteed as the prices could move higher rapidly in play.

Hopefully this will work.
I will run a test on the UK tonight.

Thanks for your help guys

Hi
I don't think that will work in every market because:

and markets minutes before the off is less than -1
could be true before and possibly only after the off (e.g. the race was off 30secs after the scheduled start). If it is true only after the off you cannot bet at SP

and selections trigger expression rnk_sel_order is greater than 1
rnk_sel_order is an undefined variable unless I am missing something
if this is to be checked at 54secs after scheduled start time the same applies again. It could be true either before or after the off. If it is true only after the off you cannot bet at SP
This type of condition is best done in a condition block:
Condition block:
AND
      markets minutes before the off is less than -0.9
      and selections rank is greater than 1

You still appear to be trying to place a "lay at SP" bet after the market has started which cannot be done

I was using 'Before the off' so effectively the event_off but appreciate the point you are making.

I don't think that will work in every market because:
Condition block:
AND
      markets minutes before the off is less than -0.9
      and selections rank is greater than 1

Yes, I have softened my condition to -0.5 or 30secs after schedule off. I will cancel all Lay bets and then submit the 'Lay at SP'

As it is 'Before the off' I have used 'rank' in my conditions where required.
I think I only need use 'near_sp' in one trigger as 'Price Limit' should suffice on most circumstances.

"Yes, I have softened my condition to -0.5 or 30secs after schedule off"

So that would be:

Minutes before the off is Between -0.5 and 1

correct ?