Author Topic: Problems with Version 7?  (Read 85216 times)

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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #60 on: 15 Jun 2012, 16:57 »
First was the warning "the handle is invalid" followed by "out of system resources"

Unfortunately this means literally what it is: out of system resources. No more files could be opened and managed (judging by the "the handle is invalid" error) or too much memory occupied or a similar case. See if you have opened too many markets or if there are too many triggers running at the same time which makes the logging system open too many files (each pair of market + file requires a separate file).

Sometimes I get this error from other programs too. Usually it means I need to close other software to make more room for that program.
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #61 on: 15 Jun 2012, 17:23 »
Unfortunately this means literally what it is: out of system resources. No more files could be opened and managed (judging by the "the handle is invalid" error) or too much memory occupied or a similar case.

Hi Oxa thanks for the reply to this.

Are you saying that V7 is more resource hungry than V6 ?

I ask this because i can run 3 incidents of V6 running every race meeting every afternoon and have never had this message. In addition i also run 3 additional bots   for hedging prior to racing.

However this occurred when only 2 incidents of V7 was running plus i hedge platform had been set up. My normal trigger set up was running.
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #62 on: 15 Jun 2012, 17:49 »

Are you saying that V7 is more resource hungry than V6 ?


Yes, when it comes to logging. As you may have noticed already, V7 logs more information than V6, each log is stored in a separate file, unlike V6 where all markets were mixed in a file for the same trigger; and the logs come formatted for easier reading.
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #63 on: 15 Jun 2012, 18:27 »
OXA
I HAD NO LOGGING.
All trigger logging was switched off!!!!!
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #64 on: 16 Jun 2012, 09:14 »
Multiple bets rear their ugly head again! but only in V7 IN TEST

Thankfully only in test but i am running "once per selection", and the triggers are failing to see their own bets.
The platform was running yesterday uninterrupted and there were multiple bets on each selection, from the same trigger.

Today the same thing has occurred, the same trigger does not see the existing bets until ther are around 3 or 4 on the selection; sometimes with an hour or so between the bets being placed.

The remember trigger option appears to work nicely in V6 live play (MARKV idea thanks)  but I want each trigger to have the opportunity to back a selection BUT ONLY ONCE.

If i put the "remember trigger" in, once the other triggers see that it has already been matched, they will not fire. This is not what i want. I want to allow other trigger to have a turn in firing so as others would often be at better prices.

Once the existing bets are "remembered" can anyone think of a way of allowing other triggers to have their turn in backing the selection.

 Cheers guys
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #65 on: 16 Jun 2012, 12:04 »
Betfair winner,

in your trigger which is causing the multiple bets, how do you find out that there are already bets for this selection? With "Selection's Numer of matched back bets" is equal to 0 and "Selection's Numer of unmatched back bets" is equal to 0 ?

Unfortunately support needs detailed informations to solve this problem, but we have to turn off logging to avaoid a slowdown because of logging, thus we cannot give support the information needed.

I try to get some detailed information for Oxa like this:

- Run the market in real mode with logging on with V6.
- Run the same market in V7 with logging off with a modified trigger:
- Replace all Back or Lay or cancel actions with a "write to action log" message. This message should contain
- name of action
- now_time
- market_name
- a variable from market: back_price
- a variable MFPro calculates from list of bets: bm_backavp, bu_backavp
- a user variable

Even with logging off, V7 writes this message into program log.

And now the time consuming part:

Compare the the V7 program log with V6 logfile. For every line in the V7 program log I do this:

- Checkpoint 1: check if now_time ist same as timestamp in logfile
      (if not, the problem comes from a slow action interface)

- Checkpoint 2: check if variable from market is the same as in V6 logfile
      (if not, the problem comes from a slow market interface)
 
- Checkpoint 3: check if variable from list of bets is same as in V6 logfile
      (if not, the problem comes from a slow list of bets interface)

- Checkpoint 4: check if user variable is the same as in V6 logfile
      (if not, the problem comes from slow calculation module)

These checks are not so easy, as refresh times will differ between V7 and V6, it will take some tries to track down the problem. If V6 and V7 are completly in sync (which is impossible), each time V7 writes a message to program log, V6 does the action.

Martin



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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #66 on: 16 Jun 2012, 14:49 »
Hi Martin
Thanks a lot for the detail of that and i will certainly give your suggestion a try.

Just to clarify I have been submitting V6 multiple bet problems, with every conceivable log file for nearly two years on numerous occasion. However they have regrettably failed to come up with an answer or a solution.

I need to find a spare day to dedicate myself to this task and really see if we can find way to crack it.

However once identified.......if the cause is for instance shown to be a "slow market interface" resolving this problem or any of the others you highlight without compromising the set up of the triggers and bots that are running, could be an insurmountable problem!
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #67 on: 16 Jun 2012, 16:01 »
hi betfair winner
first backing trigger, new condition
and trigger expression markets number of matched back bets is equal to 0
second backing trigger, new condition
and trigger expression markets number of matched back bets is equal to 1
and so on etc

mcbee
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #68 on: 17 Jun 2012, 10:34 »
Hi Betfair winner,

I think I have found a hint for double bets in V7.

As a guideline, in V6 refresh rate should be at least double of trigger refresh rate. If you setup trigger "repeat no more often than 20 Seconds" refresh rate should be 10 seconds or less. I did not unterstand this restriction because V6 worked fine even if refresh rate is 10 times the trigger repeat intervall if you refresh list of bets simultanously with refreshing the market. (I only use this setting, no idea what happens if list of bets is refreshed independent from markets.)

In V6, trigger action was launched immediately after refreshing markets and bets if trigger repeat interval was less than market refresh. Additionally trigger did no action if it was due to execute first time. The line in V6 logfile "waiting for next repitition..."

For example: Trigger repeat interval was 20 seconds, market refresh (list of bets refreshes simultaneously with markets) is 120. In V6, the first trace in logfile was 120 seconds after start of trigger, saying "waiting for next repitition.....". Next trace in logfile 240 seconds after start of trigger.

If you transfer the trigger with same settings into V7, there is a trace in logfile every 20 seconds! I mailed this issue to support, if V7 does not care about the refresh rates of markets and list of bets, this is probably the reason for some of your multiple bets.

I protect my triggers against double bets in 2 ways:

- Even market refreshes are reserved for lay actions, odd market refreshes are reserved for cancel actions. This doubles the time between 2 lay actions.

- Calculate a "hash value", and do no action if current hash value is equal to previous hash value or hash value is 0. Hash value is for example sum back_price*back_amount. In this case, if hash value does not change, there was no market refresh since last trigger execution, or no new match or no new bets in market.

But if you bet only on "predefined" selections, mcbee's hint is better.

Martin

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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #69 on: 17 Jun 2012, 21:25 »
Many thanks also for that contribution Martin very interesting. I am going to forward this on to Ian (Alfaman) in order to fully understand your advice.
Just to confirm that my own refresh rate is always at least less than half of the trigger refresh rates. and has been for a long time now.
Be lucky and thanks
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #70 on: 18 Jun 2012, 11:08 »
We have been informed by quite a few users that the logging system has become a real bottleneck in V7. They say it can make things slow and sometimes lead to the program's freezing.

We are working on this issue very hard at the moment, finding ways to keep the detailed breakdown of triggers' execution yet prevent it from hugely overloading the program.

I will keep you updated!
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #71 on: 18 Jun 2012, 11:24 »
first backing trigger, new condition
and trigger expression markets number of matched back bets is equal to 0
second backing trigger, new condition
and trigger expression markets number of matched back bets is equal to 1
and so on
Hi Mcbee thanks for the above.
 But because we do not know in advance which trigger has the opportunity of firing on what selection, by stepping the triggers as you suggest we could add additional unwanted bets on each selection, or restrict the trigger from firing on a selection if the matched back bets are not equal to ?

At the moment each trigger (broadly) fires, adhering to the "once per selection" criteria. However the "no more often than"  is less resource hungry,  but then you are limited, since you must enter "fitting selections back matched is equal or less than"? or else the trigger will just keep on firing on that selection until your bank is empty. although this way at least every trigger will have the opportunity to fire.

Very difficult balancing act, as we want to get the best prices but do not know where they will lie unless we go for the "once per selection" option.

Hope that makes some sense, and as ever many thanks for your input.
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #72 on: 18 Jun 2012, 12:38 »
OXA
I HAD NO LOGGING.
All trigger logging was switched off!!!!!

OK, BF Winner, understood, I will take this into account.

Yet "out of system resources" still means what it says. Are you sure you can run 5 copies of V6 with the same exact configuration, number of markets, triggers etc. and have no problem versus 2 copies of V7?
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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #73 on: 18 Jun 2012, 15:18 »
We have been informed by quite a few users that the logging system has become a real bottleneck in V7. They say it can make things slow and sometimes lead to the program's freezing.

We are working on this issue very hard at the moment, finding ways to keep the detailed breakdown of triggers' execution yet prevent it from hugely overloading the program.

I will keep you updated!
Hi Oxa,
since I know the performance issue of logging, I delete logging data before start of MFPro7 and run without logging.
When MFPro7 becomes unresponsive, task manager shows 50% CPU load on a dual core CPU and 25% CPU load on a quad core CPU. Maybe this is a hint. Tonight I will give MFPro7 a new try and limit MFPro to a single core.
Martin

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Re: Problems with Version 7?
« Reply #74 on: 19 Jun 2012, 05:24 »
hi betfair winner
the simple answer to the problem of wanting each trigger to have a chance to bet BUT without risking to many extra bets.
if you think about it, just add the same condition to each trigger.
and markets number of matched back/lay bets is equal or less than (the maximum amount of bets that you expect the triggers to place,INCLUDE extra for part matched bets)
this way, you will limit any amount of bets to what you would expect.
so if one trigger goes on a meltdown it will only place upto the max number allowed.

mcbee
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