Trading - lay liability in test v live mode

Hi
Trading in ‘test’ versus ‘live’ mode

In ‘live’ mode, does Betfair recognise a back bet’s potential winnings when it calculates  a lay bet’s (to hedge) liability? i.e. and so reduces the amount of money in the bank required?

I am trading horse racing in test mode at present and am experiencing the error ‘insufficient funds’ in order to place the lay bet – it seems that mf pro does not take into account the back bet. Is this a true reflection of what would happen in live mode?

Example
Back £5.00 at odds of 500 in the morning; if horse wins, win £2,495.00
Just before the off can lay at odds of 260; green up stake is £9.62 and liability is £2,490.38

In the test account I have set the value to £1,000.

No cover lay bet is placed. Program log says that there are insufficient funds i.e. need at least £2,490.38 and only have £1,000 (or £995).

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

75

Hi
The lay bet would be accepted by Betfair in real mode.
It is a known shortcoming of test mode, which requires the full liability amount for the lay bet to be available in your test funds.
There are several topics on this subject on the forum.

Mark
thanks for the quick reply (and the answer I was hoping for).
I did try the search function but must have missed the previous discussions.
regards,
75

if you intend to close the trade 'in-play' you will need the full liability of the lay bet in your bank, regardless of the potential back winnings...

Mark
thanks for the quick reply (and the answer I was hoping for).
I did try the search function but must have missed the previous discussions.
regards,
75

Hi
http://community.welldonesoft.com/troubleshooting-8/tried-to-lay-favourite-at-9501/
http://community.welldonesoft.com/suggestions-6/test-mode-liability/
http://community.welldonesoft.com/troubleshooting-8/insufficient-funds-problem-1891/

if you intend to close the trade 'in-play' you will need the full liability of the lay bet in your bank, regardless of the potential back winnings...

Hi demon
I did not know this. Could you please help me understand why funds to cover the full liability is required for inplay? Is there any reference to this that you know of in Betfair T&C / rules&regs?

Hi chaps, just going to work so won't be able to reply until late tonight...

I only know this as I backed several horses at a 1000 between hours and moments just before the off, with the intention of attempting to close them out in play, these were selections I thought had a better chance than their price suggested, (although I did not expect them to win).

The bets failed to fire because I had "insufficient funds" I then tried to manually trade out with my manual bot (Fairbot) and this would not accept them either, it used to be possible to do it in the past, but not now, despite a green figure of £2000 on the selection! I had to increase my bank to cover them.

I think this is because Betfair frequently withdraw a runner at the end of a race, this meaning the SP or previously matched odds reduce (considerably if it's a low odds selection) and any lay bets placed in play DO NOT get the reduction factor applied, meaning what appeared to be a nice green figure suddenly becomes a red figure, I have had this red number in the £hundreds  in my opinion because Betfair did not remove a non runner before the off... 

Hi demon
What you say makes sense. I have been reading a bit more on the subject and there could be number of reasons including:
offset liability is allowed by betfair on some events, but not on some others, probably for the reasons you mention
and also proximity to your overall exposure limit
there is also a setting in MFP: limit 1 bet's max liability to x to check is OK

I think a possible way round this is to do the trade out in smaller pieces which does not constitute one big perceived liability.

Thanks for your note.

Hi Mark, yes doing the lay green up in small pieces might be worth trying...

The easiest solution is to increase the bank to cover it, but I must worn anyone thinking of tradeing at high odds before and after the off, the huge liability incurred when a selection is withdrawn can be quite sobering, I have had one race not long ago when a horse backed at 1000, then layed in play at 440, (and went as low as odds of 13 ) left me with a liability of -£356, because after the race had finished a horse (around 3/1 I think) was withdrawn and the back bet was reduced to the 600's as I recall, scary stuff when it traded so low in running... I'm surprised how many times I've noticed it happening now, I don't know why Betfair miss so many? I also think it's unfair to the layers and maybe these races should be voided altogether...

Make sure to do only small bets. Not until you feel comfortable doing this. Maybe then, you can take it up a notch.